Belay loop failure. "It was actually very worn," Hewett said.

Belay loop failure. Bolts can fail, even if they look okay (corrosion can be hidden, glue might not have set properly, etc. It is intended to be used as a convenient attachment point for a belay or rappel device. Skinner’s belay loop failed. This device can connect directly to the harness (or anchor for a top down belay) without a carabiner passing through the two closed loop. Use it or loose it? - page 2 - SuperTopo's climbing discussion forum is the world's most popular community discussion forum for people who actively climb outdoors. While rappelling down, he fell 500 feet (150 m) and died. The make may be significant, because some Black Diamond harnesses, notably the BOD, do not have a tape loop (the belay loop) connecting the leg loops to the waist belt. 4. The gate also features a curved extension bar off the May 12, 2009 · Some climbers elect to girth-hitch the daisy directly to the belay loop. 12 Pull a bight from the brake strand through the locking belay carabiner. Oct 26, 2006 · Initial reports suggest that harness belay-loop failure may be to blame. Jun 27, 2025 · “The belay loop must have got a lot worse over the next few days,” says Hewett, adding that Skinner had belayed him on it with no problems (they spent four out of the next five days working the route). Yes, your sling, belay loop, and your rope are "single points of failure", but 1. My first question relates to my friend's instruction to secure the sling to my belay loop without a carabiner. It might be counterintuitive, but in the case of the number of loads on your locking carabiner, less is more. You know the history and can inspect them. As American climbers are in shock over the loss of one of their most famous climbing pioneers, a news report in the San Francisco Chronicle suggests that his harness belay loop may have snapped during an abseil. A Final Word Is this incident going to cause every climber out there to start wanting two belay loops, or tying a backup webbing belay loop in their current harness or throw their harness away altogether and buy a new one immediately? It shouldn't. This issue was implicated in the death of Todd Skinner on the Leaning Tower in Yosemite in 2006. The obvious answer i Keep finding stuff on where to attach the belay plate to - belay loop or rope loop (created when tying in). So your point about dual belay loops being useful for aid climbing may be perfectly valid, but it's still also true that there is no real justification for having dual loops for redundancy. Oct 26, 2006 · A search-and-rescue team found Skinner's body, wearing the harness with the broken belay loop, about 4 p. But I've seen a few people who cheerfully disregard the fact that their harness is equipped with that belay loop thing, Jul 13, 2024 · Explore the evolution and impact of innovative belay loop designs in climbing harnesses. The belay loop is the strongest part of the climbing harness, so why do so many climbers not trust it? It’s very common to see climbers backing up their belay loop with a separate piece of webbing or clipping their belay carabiner through the waist and leg tie-in points to avoid the belay loop. This reduces the ability of the sling to rotate freely and can cause extra wear and tear on the belay loop where it contacts the leg loops. Putting the 'biner through both the leg loop and the waist loop would tri-load the 'biner, and placing it only through the waist loop could risk a back injury. “It was totally preventable. There's no reason to hitch all three. Oct 17, 2007 · But the OP was referring to dual belay loops for redundancy in case of a belay loop failure. Someone at the gym today told me it is defective because the belay loop passes through the thin piece of webbi Aug 14, 2009 · A belay loop is a ring of sewn webbing connecting the leg loops and waist belt on a climbing harness. The part that broke, called the belay loop, is designed to be the strongest part of the climbing harness, but Hewett, 34, said Skinner's harness was old. Monday on the rocks near Bridalveil Fall. " Link here Oct 17, 2014 · Todd Skinner’s highly publicized death from belay loop failure underscores the necessity of checking your belay loop consistently. Use it or loose it? - SuperTopo's climbing discussion forum is the world's most popular community discussion forum for people who actively climb outdoors. Jun 18, 2021 · I am a beginner to climbing and bought this ClimbX harness from Go Outdoors in the UK. Jan 20, 2014 · Make sure the devices’ cams are properly locked onto the rope—inattention at this step is the most common cause of self-belay failure. Wrap 2-3 times around both strands of rope (enough for it to grab), and clip other end to the same carabiner for the WAC Way. And consider looking at blogs and talking with friends or acquaintances for Rather, things tagged as "anchor failure/error" are: "climber had set up the top-rope using hardware store webbing for the anchor system and clothesline as the belay rope. Jul 8, 2013 · In reply to MikeTS: If you were to use a biner through the top and bottom tie in loops and use this to ab/belay there would be potential for three-way loading which reduces the strength of the biner severely, resulting in potential failure. climber Todd Skinner plunging to his death in Yosemite National Park last October found no signs of contamination that might have weakened the safety webbing. They do have a cute little selection of gear for sale, including harnesses. The belay carabiner, which would normally be clipped through your belay loop, is clipped only through the loop of rope (two loops if using double ropes) on the inside of the device and not the belay loop. Nov 4, 2006 · The belay loop itself is phenomenally strong - in normal circumstances the rope (and certainly your body) would snap before this gave way. Feb 23, 2020 · However, girth hitching a sling to the belay loop means you’re cinching a sling down on one area of the belay loop. lena_chita Moderator Oct 27, 2006, 6:57 PM Post #129 of 237 (17924 views) Shortcut Registered: Jun 27, 2006 Posts: 6087 Re: Belay loop failure [ In reply to ] Report this Post Average: (0 ratings) Can't Post Nov 22, 2019 · Most of us climb on one rope Pretty much every harness has one belay loop (Yes, it's doubled over and sewn, but it's still one piece of webbing) We belay and rappel with one carabiner, with one belay device We clip the one bolt/hanger with one carabiner/draw as the first clip on a sport route, and would deck if it fails You get the idea. Just as you want your partner to take good care of you, knowing how to belay more safely is absolutely critical in this sport. I was already close to the ground and got dropped the last metre; my second stopped herself after dropping a short distance. Mammut makes this check easy by sewing a layer of red fabric into the belay loop that appears when the outer fabric gets worn too thin. If the toprope is attached to tie in points and the ab device to belay loop there is some redundancy. Close examination showed that only part of the stitching came loose. Mar 20, 2018 · The belay loop is a nothing burger. This is the whole reason for the belay loop. 13 Run that bight behind the rope and twist one side into a loop (shown on the right side in the image above). Either girth hitch the belay loop or waist and leg loops. Tie an overhand-on-a-bight in the brake strand 4 to 5 feet behind the device and then clip this “catastrophe knot” to your belay loop with a locking carabiner. May 19, 2017 · Find rock climbing routes, photos, and guides for every state, along with experiences and advice from fellow climbers. But what are pros/cons etc for tying into the belay loop only versus tying in through the waist belt and leg loop points (as per manufacturers recommendation - usually?)? Oct 4, 2024 · All the manuals show the GriGri clipped to a belay loop, so that it is free to move, and not be obstructed. Extended Rappel w/ ATC: Clip the HollowBlock to your belay loop with a small, locking carabiner. His old harness needed to be retired but he neglected to replace it. Aug 16, 2018 · The climbing legend plunged 500 ft to his death when his belay loop failed. The fact of a belay loop releasing all on its’ own is one of those accidents that leaves climbers baffled, engineers running programs and Lawyers leaping tall building to get to the harness manufacturer and to the Sep 29, 2022 · Besides these three primary concerns, other less common causes for accidents are issues with the rappel device, getting stranded on the cliff due to inadequate rope length, or harness and belay loop failure. We tested belay loops because there is gear fear about how safe they are after Todd Skinner's broke in 2006 during a rappel, costing him his life. 3 days ago · Harness failures? - SuperTopo's climbing discussion forum is the world's most popular community discussion forum for people who actively climb outdoors. The bight will need to be about two feet long. I engaged for a few minutes and got an explanation that the fuzzy parts mean that the nylon is degrading and could fail. With the plastic not being connected to anything, that would lead to wear in one spot (where gear settles on the gear loop) and eventual failure. THE BD EXPERIENCE Welcome to the Black Diamond Experience, an organic presentation of inspirational stories, photos and videos from our athletes, employees and partners. I've never used an auto belay, but I'd imagine your just clipping into a locking 'biner on the end of the rope. The Black Diamond Experience is where we showcase climbing, skiing and hiking adventures from around the world, plus event news, advocacy efforts and product and technology highlights-all in one dynamic smorgasbord of stoke A new Grigri like device from Edelrid with an interesting extra feature or two, but one in particular that makes me nervous. Is it dangerous to tie into the belay loop? Are there studies that show the pros/cons? Aug 15, 2019 · The Black Diamond GridLock Magnetron is a belay specific locker that uses magnetic technology in the gate to create an auto-locking system that is quite a bit different than most standard twist locks. Todd had girth-hitched his ascender daisy Because if this was a maintenance failure they're liable. Mar 9, 2016 · Investigation of the belay loop remnants by the National Park Service eliminated chemical contamination and animal tampering as the cause of failure. I also find this allows me to switch hands easily on the autoblock (since it's centered on my body, rather than off to one side) if I need to fix Nov 18, 2013 · 2. Bogley Outdoor Community > Main > General Discussion > Climber dies because of belay loop failure PDA View Full Version : Climber dies because of belay loop failure funintheslots 10-28-2006, 09:36 AM Jul 8, 2013 · If we are to start doubling up our belay loops because of *one* case of failure, then perhaps we should: - Double up the waist loop, as there's been one case of waist loop failure - Use twin or half ropes, as there's been multiple incidences of single rope failure Or maybe we should just replace our gear before it gets to the state of Todds. Harnesses: Belay Loop. NB: If you get to the top of the belay and you have to yank the webbing to make it retract fully, tell the staff. I'd rather find myself hanging off the belay loop if the rappel device somehow failed than a leg loop. Dec 15, 2021 · When using the mega jul in a direct belay from above, the carabiner that attaches the rope (s) to the belay device must be attached with the opening side through the thumb loop, as indicated in the manufacturer diagram above. Ensure that the climber-rope side of the bight, extending to the anchor and back down to the climber, remains on the top side of your belay device. However, a sling was found girth-hitched to the belay loop. Feb 5, 2004 · I clip my "belay biner" (HMS locking biner to which I attach my belay device) to my harness's belay loop, which is what the instructions that come with my harness tell me to do. ). Feb 10, 2021 · Evening Sends Buyer's Guides tell you exactly what you need to know about choosing the right gear. Oct 26, 2006 · The belay loop should only fail on the leader if worn and used to catch a hard fall without an appropriate dynamic belay, or on the belayer if the leader fell before placing protection above the belay. However, if you want a backup device below it on the same rope, it’s better to have a bit of separation between the 2 devices. I was told that the belay loop on this harness is dangerous, and needs to be retired. Cant comment on SPA suitability though Find rock climbing routes, photos, and guides for every state, along with experiences and advice from fellow climbers. Threading bight of rappel rope through device and clipping locking carabiner through it, but then failing to clip locker and device to belay loop. Clip the free locking carabiner to your belay loop. The accident was a result of the failure of the belay loop of his climbing harness. The carabiner is incorrectly loaded (triaxially) when you put it through the tie in points, so use the belay loop. It’s important to note that it can be difficult to release a device in guide mode once it has been weighted. Once something is girth-hitched to the belay loop, the loop is no longer allowed to shift at the tie-in point. You are adding unnecesary elements of failure in the system , its easier when you have many carabiners (they push against each other or cross load when touching the sling ) in the belay loop like when doing rope work to getting ready to climb the rope or abseil and you avoid the uncesary friction of the loop against the sling (most harness have In both instances, i never rely on only one bolt. The harness is checked for slippage of more than 20 mm at the belt or waist-adjusting devices and for damage to structural components. Todd Skinner was attempting to free climb the Jesus Built My Hotrod route up the face of Leaning Tower in Yosemite National Park on October 23, 2006. If by some chance the waist and leg loops fail the belay loop isn't attached to anything but the daisy. Relevant to first person. Jun 20, 2016 · So keep belaying off those belay loops! To be certified by the UIAA, the belay loop on your harness must withstand 15 kN of force (that’s over 3300 lbs) for three minutes, so it’s plenty strong. Below are some photos of the different belay loops I tested (before they were pulled to failure) and their tested values. However, as the recent Todd Skinner accident illustrates, in very unusual circumstances a loop could be damaged to the point of failure - the combination of an old harness, and sustained, heavy rock abrasion So my questions arise from the usage of the belay and tie-in loops. Nowadays, many climbing gyms have incorporated a useful device to help individuals climb without a belay partner - the auto belay. WARNING: The belay loop seems to be unsafe. [5] Jim Hewett, a friend of Skinner, had previously observed that the harness appeared worn. Harness/belay loop failure. Before lowering, build an autoblock with a Prusik on the brake strand above the catastrophe Apr 17, 2017 · Find rock climbing routes, photos, and guides for every state, along with experiences and advice from fellow climbers. In order to open the gate, you must squeeze two lever arms, one on each side of the gate, which releases the magnetic grip with the nose. Jan 12, 2021 · Find rock climbing routes, photos, and guides for every state, along with experiences and advice from fellow climbers. If the two tie-in points were worn and a belay loop failure, then the tie-in points should be broken and “released” the loop. Worry no more though as I’ve got your back with these 10 tips for safer belaying. Loading rope backward in a Grigri, resulting in drastically reduced braking Apr 7, 2021 · The belay loop on a harness still has so many misunderstandings and misnomers about it in both climbing and rescue cultures. "It was actually very worn," Hewett said. Feb 20, 2020 · 2) Climb a ties a figure 8 loop and clips it to her belay loop with a locker. . At Head Rush Technologies, all of our carabiners are triple-action carabiners with a built-in auto locking feature. I've been taught by a trained instructor that rope should never be tied directly into the belay loop as it can generate excessive friction and cause failure. ” Hewett surmises that the belay loop continued fraying due to intensive wall work. Jun 27, 2025 · “A normal belay loop doesn’t fail,” says Hewett emphatically. Jan 14, 2019 · Your ATC Guide or similar plaquette-style belay device is of course great for belay and rappel, but can also be rigged as an ascender. So the question comes up a lot about how to use the belay loop. The belayer's whole job is to manage slack and ensure that the belay locker is not getting unscrewed or cross-loaded. 2 days ago · An investigation of the climbing harness that failed and sent Lander, Wyo. My local gym LOVES to do random harness inspections. When he purchased the har-ness he was advised to connect the leg loops to the waist-belt by a karabiner for abseiling; the same advice is com-monly given to purchasers of the BOD harness. 3,4) Climber then unties her tie in knot and pulls the tail through the chains. Mar 15, 2016 · The vertical belay loop also results in a belay device orientation that is centered on the belayer’s body, negating the relevance of their specifically dominant hand. “We didn’t talk about it again. Same true for an autoblock and an ab device, but autoblock less failsafe than toprope. Fig. Jul 22, 2025 · Harnesses: Belay Loop. 2. Jan 20, 2022 · Always belay standing, with two hands on the rope, eyes on the climber. FAILURE TO POSITION THE BELAY/RAPPEL LOOP CORRECTLY CAN RESULT IN SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH! It is possible for the buckle end of the waist belt to invert through the belay/rappel loop while the waist belt is unbuckled. I know that there are some newer harnesses that include redundant belay loops, but it is still generally considered to strong to fail. They are over-engineered. "I'd noted it a few days before, and he was aware it was something to be concerned about. Ab with toprope useful to safeguard reascent. Reputable manufacturer's make burly harnesses—bottom line—and don't forget that there are some negatives/concerns about using two belay loops Here’s my problem, that situation is annoying at best and seems very unsafe at worst. when I belay I always clip my HMS+belay plate into the figure 8 tie in loop which runs through the two tie in points, which (so I'm told) makes the system Study with Quizlet and memorize flashcards containing terms like Critical point test, Conditional belay, Tandem Prusik belay system and more. Failure of Belay Loopby EMDesjardins | Sep, J, AM Oct 15, 2018 · The belay loop is then hooked to a testing machine, which slowly pulls until it’s applied 15 kN of force. Dec 8, 2009 · Recently I discovered that certain people in the new gym where I climb actually tie into the belay loop. Specifically, the belay loop is for karabiners only, to minimize the wear and tear on the loop. You don't need to worry about a single point of failure with the belay loop. His death was part of the impetus for many climbers and even some manufacturers to begin to sew or tie secondary belay loops along with the normal loop. If subjected to a sufficient load in this incorrect configuration, the harness can fail. Munter Rappel: The HollowBlock carabiner gets clipped to your leg loop. Suit up with the right climbing harness. Learn how here. When the red appears, it’s time to replace your harness. Moved PermanentlyThe document has moved here. Clip both devices to your belay loop. Just extend the rappel device and clip the autoblock to the belay loop. 5,6) After clear communication with the belayer, climber calls for a lower. I learned Oct 31, 2024 · E) Stranded due to inadequate length of rappel rope . On a first descent on Braden Creek, Vancouver Island, this Belay loop started ripping off the life jacket while on a 70+ feet belay off a vertical cliff. It will also feel more comfortable/less awkward when you fall on the belay loop vs the tie in points. While it doesn't cause any harm it adds absolutely no value at all. Both my harnesses (old BD Momentum, and Misty Mountain Caddy) are webbing with plastic around them, so that particular point of failure shouldn't ever be a problem. ” To wit: On October 19, while they racked up, Hewett had noticed Skinner’s leg loops looking worn out, as well as Skinner’s belay loop, which he says was “15 to 20 percent” frayed. Black Diamond X harness. That's what my belay device did the whole time I knew it before the fatal fall and I assume that had something to do with its failure (edited to reframe in answer of original post! thanks for giving me this space to air my grievances!) Jun 3, 2011 · I never understood why one would use the leg loop for the autoblock anyway. The belay loop is the best example. Aug 20, 2022 · Surely clipping into your belay loop is more of a risk as you only have one failure point! If the stitching breaks on belay loop you're gonna fall! Just wondering what your thoughts are and wether your would add an additional safety feature as a back up to take all the strain off the belay loop. Learn about materials, certifications, and factors affecting performance. Jan 17, 2014 · > Why are so many harness manufacturers using belay loops rated at only 12kN? Ok, even if they were 25kN then you should always tie in through the harness, but having a higher rated loop couldn't hurt and could offer more options with how you use your harness. If the belay loop is too strong to fail, why do we tie in to two separate points on the harness when we climb while the other end of the rope is secured to a single point? MAKE SURE THE BELAY/RAPPEL LOOP IS ROUTED CORRECTLY THROUGH THE TIE-IN POINT ON THE HARNESS WAIST BELT, EXACTLY AS SHOWN ABOVE. Attach a locking carabiner, passing it through both the bight and the belay-device cable, as well as your harness belay loop. Plan ahead! The first step in avoiding any climbing incidents is good prior planning. It pauses, releases, then starts pulling again to reach 15 kN, before releasing a final time. " "Climber 1 confused which side of the rope running from the bight clipped to her belay loop was the end tied to the second rope" He could probably wear out a Petzl in 5 months - pretty expensive for a full-time climber with a family of harnesses. Those observations support climber Will Gadd’s theory, published in a recent issue of Outside magazine, that the sawing leg loops contributed to the belay loop’s failure. Depending on Aug 10, 2006 · Find rock climbing routes, photos, and guides for every state, along with experiences and advice from fellow climbers. It is also a good idea to take a copy of a route topo—even if you have done the route before. The only known failure of a belay loop lead to the death of famous climber Todd Skinner. Possible solutions would be to service the auto belay so the recoil moves with the climber, or to change the carabiner type to one that can not open against someone’s body. This means that, in this configuration, it relies on a push button, an internal safety that won't allow it to unlock when cammed and Sep 17, 2007 · Loss of the keeper strap would free the leg loops to saw against belay loop, often in the same spot, given Skinner’s harness set-up. Inspecting shoes for wear, ropes for soft spots, and harnesses for frays should be a part of every climbing trip inside and outside. 1. Clipping belay/rappel device or anchor tether to a harness gear loop instead of the full-strength belay loop. Feb 22, 2020 · In the past, you would have been plum out of luck if you couldn’t find someone to be your belay slave. Jul 26, 2017 · Prusik from belay loop with belay plate on a sling (typical Continental method)?, or carry a device such as a shunt (extra kit to cart around)? IMO prusik on leg loop works well and is quick to set up but the length is fairly critical as cant have it going into the belay device. m. Nov 26, 2012 · Applications: Tying off a fallen climber, escaping a belay, passing a knot Fig. Failure of harness belay loops is extremely rare. Jan 1, 2013 · In October of 2006, climbing legend Todd Skinner died during a harness failure. Step 8: Check the condition of the protective webbing on the tie-in points for any cuts, swelling, damage, and wear due to use, heat, or contact with chemicals. To address these safety concerns, it’s vital that climbers who are learning to rappel thoroughly review the following safety considerations. May 14, 2011 · A belay loop failure is exceedingly rare In abseiling dont you think it would be common sense to mitigate the greatest risks first rather than focus upon the minute hazards. Get all the information you can from the guidebooks. Aug 3, 2023 · What Does a Belay Loop Do? The belay loop on a harness provides a place for attaching a belay device and thereby the rope to the belayer. F) Harness/belay loop failure. Situation 4: I fell at the first bolt, my light belayer was lifted till the cam hit the draw and unlocked. Jun 16, 2017 · This is mandatory for any complex technique or when system failure would be catastrophic. We like to put things in a box and this really creates problems in both of these worlds. Cleanup your belay zone There are many things Jan 24, 2018 · Check the tie-in points and belay loop Step 7: Check the belay loop for any cuts, swelling, damage, and wear due to use, heat, or contact with chemicals. The belay loop is also the place where we connect ourselves to devices The Belay loop is doubled nylon webbing to avoid it being a single point of failure. Based on both rumor and inference from the messaging, this looks like a fixed-gear failure, and no part of that system should fail catastrophically if maintained correctly. Nov 19, 2024 · It doesn’t, you can hang it off your belay loop quite happily. This causes the loop to get rubbed in the same spot repeatedly. Most of these auto-belay accidents have been people who don't tie in or don't tie in correctly. " If this happens, the belay/rappel loop will be routed through the non-structural, padded portion of the waist belt, not through the structural tie-in point. Is this a ploy to discourage people from tying into it or just a simple cost saving exercise? The main reason using the hard points is safer is that there are two things that have to fail for you to fall, whereas with the belay loop, there's only one point of failure, which means less safe. This allows a belayer to belay – we are responsible for controlling the amount of slack in the rope, holding our fellow climber’s weight, or providing a ‘catch’ in case of a fall. Oct 27, 2006 · After playing a bit over the last 2 decades out there, I've seen situations that I described elsewhere that have inspired me to backup my belay loop, since, especially on longer routes (in the middle of a climb) or road trips (in the middle of a road trip), close inspection may not suffice. Many climbers never leave the comfort of the ground to belay. He was pronounced dead at the scene. While a ground belay may not involve the inherent dangers—such as anchor failure—associated with multi-pitch belays, a ground belay has dangers all its own. Oct 26, 2006 · 10/26/06 - Although an official investigation remains to be completed, it appears increasingly likely that a broken belay loop on Todd Skinner’s harness caused his death. 3. If you attach it directly to the belay loop, this very important part of the harness may see damage. Some manufacturers advise against tying into the belay loop, others do not specifically mention it but do recommend using the leg/waist loops. [6] I don’t want to scare you, but if you don’t know what you’re doing, you can inadvertently cause them to suffer a serious injury. The carabiner should be clipped into the belay loop at the front of your climbing harness. While the cause of failure is non-conclusive, one of the lessons from this incident is that daisy chains should not be hitched to the belay loop. yghdcp uff smi cwwqocn cura loxt rpm cpxos ujayei vzklva